IIMs' high salary: The true story has a twist

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13: Hi,
I am an IIMB 2011 pass out. I have been among the top in terms of academics. But unfortunately did not land up with a good offer.
The truth is that in IIM's hardly 2% get the mouth watering salaries. But still only this is publicised. The salaries of the rest of the batch which is actually low/average never comes out in the press. The frustrating fact is that all the students pay the same amount for their education at IIM's(fees are really high) but still there is a huge difference in salary.
The truth should come out before the public about the actual salary that the majority of the students get.

IIMB has had the worst placement cell.

Posted by: Mohan - 18 Aug, 2011

14:Salary is not a reflection of one's academic qualifications. How you apply and the opportunities that come by play a large part. In fact, the more qualified you are, you are likely to take less risk which again results is lower returns. By the way I am IIT, IIM Alumnus

 Naren replied to: Mohan 
 post - 28 Jan, 2012

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Posted by: Hotels in Muenster vergleichen - 01 Apr, 2010

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Posted by: Kaushik - 17 Mar, 2010

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 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: Kaushik 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

18: The thing here mentioned is absolutely right,we are not understanding what is the reason to to pay this much of high salaries to some IIM's even they have efforted to get Degree.All Companies should see some more Institutes those who are giving same degree to know get same talented person with low cost.

Posted by: kumar balakrishna - 16 Mar, 2010

19:I am from IIM-B, the placements shown in news papers , TV news etc are all false.
The avge package which we r getting here is very less.The Placements data provided to media is all fake . Freshers at top IIM's just get 6-8 lakhs p.a., the B.E/BTech get better with 8-9 lpa while the ones with 3+ years of work exp only get 10-15 lakhs p.a .The placements at IIM-A,B,C etc have always been goofed up.
For instance someone who gets Rs 15 lakhs pa package first of all he is B.Tech+ 3-4 yrs wk-exp and then there is a variable component(including bonus) of 7 lakhs in the 15 lakhs package.
This means he is just getting a fixed salary of Rs 8 lakhs p.a.
After tax deductions a guy with 15 lakhs p.a.( 8 is fixed rest is variable) just gets
a inhand of Rs 53K per month .Thus the media hype about IIM's is just an eyewash.
Please stop trusting IIM salaries and news on TV/newspapers/ articles etc.
Supreme court should take legal action against IIM's for misleading people and givning false information to media,

 som replied to: kumar balakrishna 
 post - 01 Sep, 2010

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 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: kumar 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

21:Let's admit that the high pay packets that they get is bcoz of few people really performing. The rest get the advantage of the network. Once a IIM fellow is at the helm, he would always go to his alma mater and select few for high salaries. Now question is, are companies doing business or charity? True, they are doing business. But only few of these high salaried doesn't constitute the company. There are many low salaried people who are also contributing. So, when as a team the going is well, the individual performances are not so much scrutinized. In IIM also, those who get selected are not all graduation toppers or IIT'ians. Not all IIT'ians appearing also make it. That itself goes to say that, if the same entrance test is taken again, ranks will change. Working with few of these alumnis I got the feeling that they only want to work in an exclusive IIT/IIM environment. Few of them can't take others drawing the same salary or getting a promotion ahead of them. Sometimes they get demotivated and can't perform when others without these precious certificates are charged up and perform better. One thing few of them with such attitude problem need to realize that IIT/IIM certificates can get them a great first break. But there are many others who are no less competant esp. when it's not about rocket science. Sad part is that our society thinks that higher the salary, higher the merit, which is not always true. My friend from IIT in late 90's got an offer of hardly 90,000 per annum from L&T in mumbai. Same person is drawing 60 odd lacs per annum in investment banking now. IQ didn't change, was already polished, got a l'il bit more perhaps. Salary is not the only index of talent or capability.

 Abhijit Pani replied to: kumar balakrishna 
 post - 18 Mar, 2010

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 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to:  Abhijit 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

23: Hahaha....think it in this way....whether they get unprecedented or mundane renumeration, what do they contribute to the majority humanity? Disparity. And policies to create more.Hypocrites.How much money do you need to live?You already have more than you can spend in a hundred life time.

Posted by: bijunator - 15 Mar, 2010

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 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: bijunator 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

25: While I agree that this sudden change of heart by IIMA is just a media stunt to try and reduce the sheen from the superior performance of other institutes, I think a larger question is whether this sort of exaggeration of salaries is such a problematic issue.

Variable pay and bonuses are a perfectly legitimate, and very common, way of employee compensation, especially for managers. Many companies have a policy of compensating their employees largely through variable pay and bonuses, keeping fixed salaries low. Investment banks and other financial institutions are the main examples, though other sectors also see this strategy.

For example, the "fixed" component of the salary that Google's CEO Eric Schdmit gets is just $1. Everything else he gets is via bonuses. Page and Brin have a similar compensation structure, and so does Steve Jobs.

Now, when you consider Steve Jobs's or Eric Schmidt's salary, would you say that we should consider just the $1 fixed part? Or should we consider the millions of dollars they get as bonuses?

Why should this be any different for IIM graduates?

Like the guy below has said, even IIMA - whose placements chairman is preaching these things now - used to calculate students' placement packages in this way, until this year when apparently they have got a drubbing from IIM Calcutta.

Why is this wrong? It's obvious that the compensation structures in these companies which take these brilliant students are designed in this way, such that the fixed component is kept low and bonuses are kept intentionally high. And judging from the huge hue and cry from the issue of bank bonuses in the US recently, it's evident that these bonuses are not really "variable" in the traditional sense at all - the banks pay their employees these bonuses even if they go nearly bankrupt and have to get government money to stay solvent.

So, these bonuses and variable pay components which are parts of these huge salaries reported in the media - like the 1.6 crores one from IIM-C this year, or the 1.44 crores one the IIMA director proudly declared two years back - are perfectly legitimate and standard components of the salary. Just like Steve Jobs's and Eric Schmidt's salary. When we don't estimate the salaries of these executives as $1 or some such ridiculous amount, why should we do the same for IIM grads?

Posted by: JiJ - 14 Mar, 2010

26:My friend got a Pay package of Rs. 60 lakhs p.a
But actually he is posted in US so it is actually just 130,000 US $ Out of which 50,000 is very bonus+variable component. So all he gets is 80,000 US $ which after TAx is just 55,000 odd which is very less in New York kind of places.i.e 4,800 US$ left per month out of which he willl spend 3000 $ per month on food , accomodation, transport etc .At this salary he can only buy a second hand car and live in a 1 room shared apartment.So IIM's always churn outr false stories. DONT THINK IIMS ARE A BRAND. THEY ARE LIARS.

 som replied to: JiJ 
 post - 01 Sep, 2010

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 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: JiJ 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

28:Let me guess...you are a bigshot manager....Why is this wrong? ....well it is stupid/dishonest.....the real question should be Why is this idea any good? ...stop your bigted prattle and get off the high horse you twit....

 Sabari replied to: JiJ 
 post - 14 Mar, 2010

29: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/placement -time/IIM-A-student-bags-record-Rs-14-cr-offe r/articleshow/2856401.cms

I got the above link from an IIM call getters thread on Pagalguy. The link is a news story from March 2008, it clearly shows the IIMA director (who is still the Director of IIMA) trumpeting the 1.44Crore salary - the highest salary of that year, I guess - of an IIMA student. And he proudly declares the high salaries of IIMA:-

"Top salary has been in the range of Rs 1.12 crore to Rs 1.44 crore, and this also counts a huge component of bonus, based on performance given after a year. But we can still say the highest salary was Rs 1.44 crore," said Mr Barua.

Now, this statement by the Director of IIMA is exactly the kind of thing what this Saral Mukherjee is now preaching against.

This clearly illustrates what many people have been saying in this thread: that these recent news reports and opinions by IIMA authorities is clearly just a case of SOUR GRAPES. IIMA was always the most enthusiastic institute to publicize their high salaries when they got the best salaries. Now, when their performance has not been that good, they are criticizing these salaries? This is hypocrisy at its worst.

I am from an institute which has never published its highest salaries publicly. Of course, we have never had placements as good as the IIMs, but at least we are not hypocritical as IIMA. Our institute probably can preach these sort of things, but IIMA has no moral right to say this now when they have performed badly in this year's placements.

Posted by: SourGrapes - 14 Mar, 2010

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 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: SourGrapes 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

31: These salaries are offered by Banks and other finance companies.The cost to these companies finally come on the shoulder of the common man on the street. In a poor country like India such salaries should be avoided.The Student may be a genious and done lot of hard work in getting an IIM degree, but being a genious they should also understand our society and country. Its sad that our Govt is a mute spectator and does not have the guts to tell these companies to behave with responsibility.

Posted by: Sushobhan Lahiri - 13 Mar, 2010

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 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: Sushobhan 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

33: It can be true that students from such institutions can be dependable and hardworking. But then, what is the nation doing spending huge amounts just to create a few persons who are equipped to garner huge prosperity? The nation's commitment should be to everyone here. Do these persons contribute in any way to the mental stature developement of the others in this nations?

Posted by: Ved from Victoria Institutions - 13 Mar, 2010

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 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: Ved 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

35: Why bother about the salary of IIT or IIM. My personnel experience tells, a good academic back ground is always beneficial, but thats only 40%, think about the rest. U dont get them from any academic institute. U develop those skills on Job & contineous learning. Believe me, an average intelligent graduate with common sense & learning skills can easily have success. Remember there's still 60% ahead, why not try for it.

Posted by: Tapan Biswas - 13 Mar, 2010

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 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: Tapan 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

37: One should not measure a person by the salary. Salary is just one indicator. It should be measured by their talent, how adaptable to the new organization, learn new things.One crore+ salary given to some individuals do not make them gods.This only shows the paying capabilities of the hiring companies in the short-term.Only long term analysis will show whether such decisions were correct.

Posted by: gka - 13 Mar, 2010

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 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: gka 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

39:hello sir the people of IIT and IIM wont get job just like that they must be very intelligent if they dont get the salary what is the need for working so hard and getting seat in those colleges i think since u didnt get those salaries u are jealous about them see this is the main problem in India they will cry if others succeed its rediculous to give such a comment and for ur kind info iam not an IIT or IIM graduate but i know the difficulty to get through so dont cry if others succeed be one of them or else be quiet

 Shahrukh replied to: gka 
 post - 14 Mar, 2010

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 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to:  Shahrukh 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

41: very very true

 abhir replied to:  Shahrukh 
 post - 16 Mar, 2010

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 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen  replied to: abhir 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

43:I agree to your view. if this person fails to deliver he can be out on street..But the person in the average bracket can soon join CEO club...Lets not forget this is only a start up....

 Shubhamoy replied to: gka 
 post - 13 Mar, 2010

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 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to:  Shubhamoy 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

45: agreed people. its funny to see people talking such things.
IIM is not a joke. however the institute is, the students that end up there are brilliant and distinguished and they do deserve high packages. If not, what is all the hard work for.
Doesn't everyone learn primarily to earn? As high as possible.

 Hardik Bhatt replied to:  Shubhamoy 
 post - 15 Mar, 2010

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 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen  replied to: Hardik 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

47: Its time for students to wakeup to the reality of the value that they can produce for organisations for the salaries offered... I am sure the companies are specific about what they want when they pay... Salary Vs Revenue of 1:4 ratio. if atleast yes, may be they are justified...
I am sure one need to analyse the data with respect to the previous work experience of the individual for a parallel placement...

Posted by: GR Reddy Husys - 12 Mar, 2010

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 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: GR 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

49: Agreed that most of the placement figures released in media are highly inflated , but there are cases of IIM grads being offered INR 1 Cr plus . Rather than commenting on these individuals and the organizations paying these "obscene" amounts salaries , one should try and understand and appreciate the potential that these people have and the highly favorable ROI ( return on investment) they generate for companies , otherwise they wouldnt be holding these jobs.

Posted by: Sandman - 12 Mar, 2010

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 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: Sandman 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

51: To be on the lighter side...

Larry Ellison once told something like in US Univ... People from premier institutes are sure failures

He had given some examples of successful entrepreneurs/CEOs who are college dropouts.

The brilliant IIM grads are entering into professional world to work for the organisations which are family owned.

Also there was a saying floating around few years back...

A semiliterate person builds an empire over 30 years.
His premier business school educated sons have divided and destroying it.

Posted by: Winnie - 12 Mar, 2010

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 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: Winnie 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

53:Winnie, you are right. Many of the Successful business men through out their life but, they have not been from any of the Business Schools. In fact, some of them may not know any of these schoool names.

Can these Business Schools say
1) the minimum Salary given to their least ranked guy when saying about the highest salary.

2) Average IQ level increase by the students before joining the B School and on going out.

3) How many of the students have been succesful even after 5 years of going out. At least had 50% rise in their salary. Have got higher positions than initially offered.

 Vasu replied to: Winnie 
 post - 15 Mar, 2010

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 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to:  Vasu 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

55:Winne, you have got it spot on.

 Preethi replied to: Winnie 
 post - 13 Mar, 2010

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 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to:  Preethi 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

57: No one from an IIM or an IIT can openly blast out and demand a huge salary from the recruiter and no recruiter ever coming to the placements at any IIT or IIM is bound or forced to hire students...it solely depends on which candidates the company deem suitable for the openings it has or which candidates fulfill the selection criteria of a particular recruiter...


so all the people who think that the Corporate India pays too much to hie the people from the IIM's it's time to do a reality check on whether they'll reject an offer to join a job if they are being offered such a package...no company pays you for sitting idle and it takes more value out of you than what it gives to you...that's business...


Regarding the arrogance of the students at IIM's, it what the world perceives them to be...some of them are your next door neighbours and the people you played with in your childhood and their arrogance does not exist in anyway while accepting what is right or wrong..

Most of the people commenting this piece of information have little or no information about what goes on during the placements...none of the IIM's seem to be in race with each other when you spend your life in the campus because many of us have friends and acquaintances spread throughout campuses of the 7 IIM's...though as an alumnus you tend to develop a liking for you alma mater...

and lastly if you still believe in what media says...try to be happy with the limited information you may have but please restraint yourself about saying demeaning things about any college leave alone the IIT's and the IIM's which still attract the majority of best talent in their respective field of education...

Posted by: Decoder@IIM - 12 Mar, 2010

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 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: Decoder@IIM 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

59: i think we have to accept the fact that recession has hit pretty bad and it will take its own time to heal over but till that time we should be a bit flexible in our approach we might be able to enjoy better that way
aman
9799490933

Posted by: amanvarma - 12 Mar, 2010

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 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: amanvarma 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

61: Performance in the Job should determine the Salary a MBA Grad gets rather than the B School Tag Name... which in my view isnt the fair way .....

We arent talking about rocket science engineering grad who would need an degree from MIT.... rather we are talking about people managing the show to put the fuel in and sending it high up... The higher it goes better the manager is ... and the payload...

I am neither an rocket science engineer nor an show runner... I am just an Kite flyer in my stupid dreams...

Posted by: Get a life - 12 Mar, 2010

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 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: Get 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

63: if iima does not care about salaries, why do they leak stories about "1.44" and then after another institute comes out with another figure, why do they desperately try to match it? this really sounds like pure sour grapes from the college!

Posted by: Sarah - 12 Mar, 2010

64:Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: Sarah 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

65:It wasn't leaked by any official sources. Know this for a fact, madam. In fact there was an entry on official blog of IIMA soon after stating that the 1.44 crore figure is not an officially released figure. Check the date on the following link:

http://insideiima.wordpress.com/2010/02/23/cl arification-regarding-article-in-economic-tim es-dated-22-2-2010/

Now we know you love your institute or hate ours, but do not cook up stories to feed that love/hatred. Leaked out to media? You'd know better after clicking on that link.

 IIMAStudent replied to: Sarah 
 post - 12 Mar, 2010

66: Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to:  IIMAStudent 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

67: @IIMAStudent

firstly, i am not a student to luv my institute - i finished my studies long ago and am very happy with my job thank u very much.

secondly, being a journalist i kno very well that these kinds of news will not come in the media without the tacit knowledge of your college's media cell/public relations cell/PRO. i have worked in the times group, and i know the kind of ties they have with top colleges - every bit of news is vetted and taken to the college authorities.

thirdly, ur college's little clarification in ur little "blog" is laughable. seriously, what is the readership of ur blog outside ur institute? 50 ppl? 100 ppl? after having headlines in Economic Times about a story, u think the story can be retracted by a tiny little "clarification"? puhlease. if u wanted, u cud have got ET to publish an official retraction - this is what ur college would have done if you really wanted ppl to know that the 1.44Cr story was not true. for example, this is exactly what u wud have done if the original story published was about something embarrassing for ur college - like a scandal or something.

ur huge leak, following by ur little clarification in a tiny little blog means absolutely nothing.

and of course, the other small unofficial leaks - matching the 1.5 Cr figure that iimb bagged later by another leak in hindustan times - even that wudn't have happened without ur college's knowledge.

i am not really blaming u for defending ur institute - its possible that u just dont kno how these media tricks work. if u dont believe me, just ask around in ur institute, ask the media officer of ur institute and find out the truth for urself. u will find that all these are just tiny little tricks in media management.

 Sarah replied to:  IIMAStudent 
 post - 14 Mar, 2010

68: Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen  replied to: Sarah 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

69: Must have been 14.4 Lacks and not Cr.

 Goodone replied to:  IIMAStudent 
 post - 12 Mar, 2010

70: Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen  replied to: Goodone 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

71: Point to be noted . These are the same financial institutions who did not see the recession coming and got themselves buried under their own weights and commitments just a year ago . The same scenario was earlier played out in 1992 , 1996 2005 and so on .

Posted by: Anand Ghurye  - 12 Mar, 2010

72:Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: Anand 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

73: This info of 1 Cr plus hides many facts.
1. What is its Dollar/Pound/Euro Value ?
2. What is the tax structure of the destination nation(IT+ST)?
3. What is the cost of living there ?
4. What is the working experience of the person who got this offer? Is he someone who had already worked somewhere before getting admission to IIM?

Please remember that pseudo-journalists these days are a.not very well informed b. attempt to sensationalize every information and c. They do not follow the ethics of full disclosure of any news - only the sensational part of it - so that there are controversies in the society.

Hence, there is no need to launch a revolution in the country simply because one MNC is paying a decent salary to any IIM student.

Posted by: Ravindra Singh - 12 Mar, 2010

74:Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: Ravindra 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

75:At least one mail with substance ....thank you Mr. Singh.
Seems our society still cannot tolerate outliers - good or bad - either way!

 A Chakraborty replied to: Ravindra Singh 
 post - 13 Mar, 2010

76: Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to:  A 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

77:hats of sir, the ans u r given is exactly true..
by
Sathya Narayanan (MBA Rai Business School Delhi)
09716824855

 Sathya Narayanan replied to: Ravindra Singh 
 post - 12 Mar, 2010

78: Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to:  Sathya 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

79:Ravinder, You are spot on.. Good feedback..

 Jitendra Chandani replied to: Ravindra Singh 
 post - 12 Mar, 2010

80: Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to:  Jitendra 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

81: It good that people get a package of 1 crore plus but getting packages of 1 crore plus abroad is like getting 6-7 lac package in India so that is not a big deal if the IIM graduates are getting 1 crore plus packages.i am not actually in favor of the packages which are offered to IIM grads ,its just because they study in premier colleges so they are paid off?what if tommorrow they dont perform well in an organisation?still they would be getting hefty packages n in long term they will indulge themselves in some scams because there is always a sharp mind behind such activities,.

Posted by: Sumi Shweta - 12 Mar, 2010

82:Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: Sumi 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

83:ya...thats very good pont.
i agree with ur opinon....
what are you doing..

 kiran replied to: Sumi Shweta 
 post - 14 Mar, 2010

84: Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to:  kiran 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

85:Yes. I know of IIT & IIMs who are literally underemployed now.....can you believe? That guy started with 5 LPA in the year 1997. In his own words " looks like it is not clicking anymore'

 A Chakraborty replied to: Sumi Shweta 
 post - 13 Mar, 2010

86: Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to:  A 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

87:Not really, 1 crore plus in US would be about 220,000 dollars, which is way more than the industry standard of 60,000 - 80,000 dollars which a masters grad in technology might be earning. Even a 60k - 80k package "compares" to a 15-20 lac package in India. So 1 crore abroad really is a HUGE deal!

 Jit replied to: Sumi Shweta 
 post - 12 Mar, 2010

88: Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to:  Jit 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

89: ya...thats very good pont.
i agree with ur opinon....
what are you doing..

 kiran replied to:  Jit 
 post - 14 Mar, 2010

90: Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen  replied to: kiran 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

91: not relly ,1 crore plus in india would be about 229,000 dollars,which is way mpore than the industry standard of 90,000-190,000 dollers which a master grad in technology might be earning. my contect no 919696138899 ,9598521346.

 ashish kumar savita replied to:  Jit 
 post - 13 Mar, 2010

92: Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen  replied to: ashish 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

93: Absolutely agreed. Infact middle east pays you the highest with high saving potential as apposed to west. If you talk of UAE for instance 1 cr inr equals to almost AED 800,000. This amount is drawn at the level of CEO or something.

 Kush replied to:  Jit 
 post - 12 Mar, 2010

94: Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen  replied to: Kush 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

95: Accepted All fingers of the hand are not equal. For this mistake why being so unfair. Remember Work is God and Health is Wealth.

Posted by: Gods must be crazy - 12 Mar, 2010

96:Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: Gods 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

97: That simply means the recession is not over. For those lucrative salaries, still waiting for another year or so.

Posted by: Dewesh - 12 Mar, 2010

98:Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: Dewesh 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

99: I wonder whether this Saral guy would say the same thing next year if IIMA manages to have a good placement next year. This year they got really hammered by their competitors like IIM-C, IIM-B and ISB, hence these lame attempts to distract the media from the achievements of other b-schools. This is really just a case of grapes turned sour!

Posted by: Karan - 12 Mar, 2010

100:Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: Karan 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

101:Incidentally Professor Saral Mukharjee is an IIMC alum. And having spent two years at IIMA, I know for a fact that Prof Saral is saying what he believes. He regards IIM placements as the most insignificant activity that IIM students go through.

 IIMAStudent replied to: Karan 
 post - 12 Mar, 2010

102: Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to:  IIMAStudent 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

103:Haha! What leads you to believe that IIMA got hammered? I think Prof. Saral makes a very good point, and IIMA has always said this -- it is not about the one guy who gets the big bucks.

- An ex-IIM student, and a current recruiter at all three IIMs

 Preeti replied to: Karan 
 post - 12 Mar, 2010

104: Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to:  Preeti 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

105: I can just laugh out loud when reading about this news of Salaries being granted to students from IIM's. Well , education at Cost returns assured will soon become the marketing slogan at IIM's created by media.

What is nescessary is not projected....I would love to read articles from IIM's encouraging non-IIM institutes get good placement opportunities for their students (i.e What will help them get the best) , since it is obvious that students from IIM's will get thier share first.

The media should help every student irrespective of the kind of institute they come from ,get an offer in a good organization.

Media should start helping improve the quality of education and outlook of every aspirant aspiring to do a MBA..this to a great extent will help our country reduce differentiation in education.

Posted by: Bharath S - 12 Mar, 2010

106:Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: Bharath 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

107: Do we really have the structuring of the package? Does it comprise of huge superannuation, gratuity, retirement pension and those images of the moon which appear close by because it happens to be the reflection of the real one in the saucer in the hand filled with water !

Posted by: atul t s - 12 Mar, 2010

108:Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: atul 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

109: So THE TRUTH PREVAILED, as always! A great discussion was going on THIS PLATFORM on the HIGH-SALARY NEWS of IIMs for a long time..I hope EVERYONESo, not surprised to see this revealed...In fact These Media Hoopla, only deteriorate the FUTURE of GENERAL IIM GRADs.

By the way, Money is really Hard-Earned and it has got VALUE!

Posted by: Rananjay Anand - 12 Mar, 2010

110:Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: Rananjay 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

111: Well IIM were the first to start MBA Courses in India and thus they are referred to as benchmark where people compare their salaries. Get alive people IIM salaries might be in talks but the reality is when you are in job you are facing the real world you are no more in your cocoons and so stop this IIM funda.
I have seen various IIM's complaining about more then their peers not from IIM yet at the level they are and drawing the same package.
Why do we Indians only focus on the salary of IIMs ?
only those hardworking students with good luck land up getting 1cr+ (reality of a job is way way different from what stated in the interview)
Instead of comparing institutes on the basis of salary why cant people compare on the basis of survey regarding the mental satisfaction of the students on the job.

Anyways,

I least care what the IIM packages go because being an IIM or any XYZ college student what matters is long term achievement and satisfactions and not short term hyped news and achievement.

Posted by: An Indian - 12 Mar, 2010

112:Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: An 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

113:Today people don't look after the problems or the stress faced by these young minds, just getting good salaries and packages are don't enough . After working a year or two, there are people who even left these jobs and join civil services not because they want to serve people but due to the reasons of pressure they go through and also due to job insecurity . So, it will be better not to concentrate on salaries but better to concentrate on job satisfaction and also on the space and time one getting for his personal life .
Because You earn to live ..and don't make it "live to earn" .

 Rahul Mishra replied to: An Indian 
 post - 12 Mar, 2010

114: Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to:  Rahul 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

115: Really like your thinking..i have realised the same after working for 4 months in a company where i was doing well n would have a great future..but i didnt see the point after working my ass off 14 hrs a day, six n a half days a week..my idea-work 75% of ur time n enjoy 25%..not work 95 n enjoy 5..not worth it.

 psycological phanthom replied to:  Rahul Mishra 
 post - 12 Mar, 2010

116: Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen  replied to: psycological 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

117:Guys,
To be a successful manager,IIM brand is not a necessary and sufficient condition.Huge salary will not make a good managers, its only your learnings that enable you to manage the job efficiently, that is given to you.No matter you have learned managerial skills from IIM or XYZ B-School or from everyday life experiences. End of the day as a manager your performance matters not B-school you are associate with.
So guys i request india to do a reality check on this.
ashwani

 Ashwani replied to: An Indian 
 post - 12 Mar, 2010

118: Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to:  Ashwani 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

119: All the three of you are you contradicting me or supporting me?
Because this is exactly what I was saying just that you people have framed it with different words ?

 An Indian replied to:  Ashwani 
 post - 15 Mar, 2010

120: Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen  replied to: An 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

121: In that sense IIM B is much better.. Actually IIM Bangalore always have much better placements then other IIMs. Last year all the IIM's had issues for the placements due to recession. Also I completely agree that all these IIM's (Specially A, B and C) should come out of fierce competition of who is number 1 IIM. Being a product of IIM myself, i know what it matters, knowledge and experience and Job satisfaction is much above then a merely high Salary.

Posted by: Insider - 11 Mar, 2010

122:Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: Insider 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

123:very rightly said Mr.insider.All IIM graduates dont think like u.Hats off for your modesty.

 Insider2 replied to: Insider 
 post - 12 Mar, 2010

124: Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to:  Insider2 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

125:What exactly is a "better" placement?

 Kaushik replied to: Insider 
 post - 12 Mar, 2010

126: Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to:  Kaushik 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

127:@Insider: Didn't you hear about IIMB's placement fiasco this year? Their placecom forced out around 40 people from the placement process on the 5th day and announced to the world that the placement process was "100% completed". The angry students called an emergency General Body Meeting of the student council on the next day and fired the whole place com. The administration took over the placements of the remaining people then. I don't know whether the placements are over there - it's possible that the admin has actually finished the process by now.

So, IIMB is not better, it's much, much worse. What the placement committee did is unforgivable. The E-GBM showed them the door, so hopefully this won't repeat in the future

 IIMBStudent replied to: Insider 
 post - 11 Mar, 2010

128: Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to:  IIMBStudent 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

129: I don't know from where you got these figures, but it certainly doesn't represent the real picture. Its not that I am trying to defend IIM B, I agree that there were some inefficiencies but definitely the whole batch got placed. Nobody was forced out of the placements, everybody got placed. The entire fiasco is about the student blaming placement committee for not getting their desired profiles. Moreover student body did not fire placecom, placecom resigned because after working so hard, they were being blamed.
I dont know how did you get these misleading figures. But surely this doesn't represent the reality.

 Student@IIMB replied to:  IIMBStudent 
 post - 12 Mar, 2010

130: Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen  replied to: Student@IIMB 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

131: Well, 'resigned' sounds better at the end of the day, but we all know under what circumstances they had to go out. The situation was so bad that they would have definitely been out, the only choice was whether to 'resign' or be kicked out. And 'the entire batch got placed'? Seriously? Weren't you present in the campus on 8th and 9th?

 IIMBStudent  replied to: Student@IIMB 
 post - 12 Mar, 2010

132: Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: IIMBStudent 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

133: I have heard about that. The placecom has the pressure to show the world that we are no.1 in placements at the price of student's future, which is unacceptable. They were in the rat race for which IIM places students fasters. I don't know if thats the only reason why they announce placement was "100% completed". Thats why i mentioned that All the IIM's Specially A,B & C should come out of the Race. Also the placement does not decide that you are the best IIM.

 Insider replied to:  IIMBStudent 
 post - 12 Mar, 2010

134: Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen  replied to: Insider 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010

135: Bean counters all!

 Kaushik  replied to: Insider 
 post - 12 Mar, 2010

136: Tear Promote,describe tonight thanks stick adopt plan annual past miss percent extend shoulder cause horse and roll around complete through comment move basic investigate police reduce rest want agency think turn ball strong familiar balance allow cause arrange congress used lunch business propose series commit child onto scientist generate king expensive really bar previous else bill down alternative every pleasure league my agree measure hope sun link comparison fast subject institution heavy concerned piece distance view basis solution special manage fire weather variety important white thanks derive bus reference they appropriate race

 Hotels in Muenster vergleichen replied to: Kaushik 
 post - 01 Apr, 2010